Freedom of speech

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Absurd View: Hasselbeck, Shepherd suggest clergy could have been jailed without Prop 8

During the November 7 edition of ABC's The View, while discussing the passage of Proposition 8, the California ballot initiative amending the state constitution to ban same-sex marriage and effectively overturning the California Supreme Court's May 15 ruling that affirmed the constitutional right of same-sex couples to marry, co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck asserted that a "priest" in Sweden was "put in jail for not wanting to perform a marriage to a gay couple, so then they put him in jail because the law stated that you could not discriminate based on sexual preference." Later in the discussion, co-host Sherri Shepherd said: "I don't want to know that my pastor -- because, you know, the church is preaching against homosexuality, and I don't want to know that my pastor could be jailed." However, contrary to Hasselbeck and Shepherd's suggestion that as a result of the California Supreme Court's ruling -- or without the passage of Proposition 8 -- members of the clergy "could be jailed" for refusing to perform gay marriages, neither the decision by the California Supreme Court, nor Proposition 8 had anything to do with members of the clergy. The California Supreme Court's ruling applied only to state officials. The ruling directed "state officials [] [to] take all necessary and appropriate steps so that local officials may begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples" [emphasis added]. The court itself noted the irrelevance of its decision to clergy, saying in the majority opinion that "no religion will be required to change its policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs." Additionally, contrary to Hasselbeck's assertion that a Swedish priest was jailed "for not wanting to perform a marriage to a gay couple," Swedish Pastor Ake Green reportedly was convicted in 2004 under Sweden's hate crimes law for making incendiary statements about gays and lesbians, including calling them "a deep cancer tumor on all of society." In November 2005, his conviction was overturned by Sweden's highest court, which reportedly said his sermon "was protected by freedom of speech and religion." From the November 7 edition of ABC's The View: WHOOPI GOLDBERG (co-host): I don't know if you all are aware of this, but a record number of minority voters turned out for the election, and apparently it helped socially conservative victories on issues like gay marriage. In California, they've -- there is now a ban on gay marriage, and they're trying to revoke the rights that were initially given to folks who are gay married couples who are trying to take the rights away -- BARBARA WALTERS (co-host): By the state Supreme Court. GOLDBERG: By the state Supreme Court -- said yes, that was OK, it was fine. WALTERS: The state Supreme Court voted that gay marriage was legal. Our friend Ellen DeGeneres, for example, got married, and it was extremely important to her and her partner, of course, and now Proposition 8 proclaims that -- puts a ban on gay marriage. And one of the reasons we were talking about it earlier was that some church groups opposed it because they said if a church group said, "We will not do a gay marriage, OK?" They could be sued and they could lose their tax-exempt status if they -- if their religion or whatever it is precludes their doing -- having gay marriage. And that also it would mean that gay marriage could be taught in schools, if they wanted to. GOLDBERG: I don't understand that. WALTERS: Which don't you understand? GOLDBERG: How would it be taught in schools? I mean, marriage isn't taught in schools, so why would gay marriage be taught in schools? WALTERS: Well, in the same way sex education is taught in some -- or discussed. I don't know that it -- this is -- I'm telling you their fears, not my fear -- that it could be, that if somebody brought it up, it's something that could be discussed or something that could be in the curriculum. Who knows? But the bigger issue seems to have been the churches. Certain churches. HASSELBECK: It was said with precedent, I think, in Sweden there was a church, a priest who was then jailed, and I think since then released. But he was put in jail for not wanting to perform a marriage to a gay couple, so then they put him in jail because the law stated that you could not discriminate based on sexual preference, I believe. But this is -- I guess 5 million people voted and wanted to protect the definition of marriage as it had been stated, and I think that people felt a victory in California because it was -- it came from the people, that these people came out and voted. It wasn't set by judges, so I think that's where they were coming from. SHEPHERD: This is also -- this is also -- you know, you said that they -- this is also the second time this has been up for a vote. The first time, the people said, "No, we don't want gay marriage." WALTERS: And then it went to the court. SHEPHERD: Then they overturned it and the people voted against, so this is the second time. WALTERS: You know, I didn't know that a proposition, that is an amendment to the state constitution, superseded the state Supreme Court. GOLDBERG: Neither did I. WALTERS: You know, I thought the Supreme Court was the final word, but evidently, the finally word is the amendment. HASSELBECK: But their argument there I guess was -- are you to legislate from the bench. It kind of goes back to that argument, and that the actual amendment should come -- if they're going to do anything to the constitution, it should come from the people, as it is for the people. GOLDBERG: Well, the people should also be given all the information, and not frightened into things. Now, I think if kids who are the product of a gay couple are asked about it in school, they should be able to explain it, and that's shouldn't be afraid -- that shouldn't be something that frightens people. I always say, look, if you think gay marriage is wrong, don't marry a gay person. You know what I mean? But wait, wait -- because pretty much -- and I've been around a lot of gay people most of my life, and gay people do not -- and there are always boneheads everywhere, let's get that -- there are straight boneheads, and gay boneheads, and boneheads everywhere. But I believe most gay people who want to go get married do not want to go someplace that doesn't want them to -- they don't -- WALTERS: They won't go to the church. GOLDBERG: -- they wouldn't go to the churches. That's why we do it in the backyards -- not we, like I'm gay -- but I have been at so many gay marriages -- you know you always talk about being the bridesmaid? I'm the bride's thing, whatever. You know? HASSELBECK: It's interesting that the actual majority of the votes -- I mean, I guess it was at the urban minority communities voted overwhelmingly for this proposition. GOLDBERG: Yes. They were told in the churches that people would be teaching it in the schools if they allowed it. I'm just telling you what, what -- SHEPHERD: But also -- excuse me, also not only that, but you know, I don't want to know that my pastor -- because, you know, the church is preaching against homosexuality, and I don't want to know that my pastor could be jailed, sent to jail because he's preaching something that's -- WALTERS: But you know, that is so -- [crosstalk] WALTERS: Supposedly, if a preacher -- under -- if the ban did not pass, and a preacher preached against homosexuality, which you say happens in churches that you've been to, he could be, quote, jailed, because he is preaching -- SHEPHERD: I don't know what the quote is around jailed. Jailed is jailed. WALTERS: Well, because he could be jailed. But I mean, I think that's really rather farfetched that they're going to come -- SHEPHERD: No, it's not farfetched at all. WALTERS: Well, that's why the ban -- SHEPHERD: Somebody was jailed. WALTERS: You would have voted for the ban? SHEPHERD: It's something that I struggle with because, you know, I have my friends who are gay, my uncle Tommy, uncle Jimmy, as Jeffrey likes to call them. And it's something that I struggle with because I don't want rights taken away from people, you know, being able to care for their partners and, you know, rights that they have. And then also, too, I am a Christian and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. So it is a struggle that I have. WALTERS: But you see, my point is, and again -- you know, I'm sort of saying a little bit of what Whoopi said -- the idea that a preacher who preached against homosexuality, that the law enforcement, that the -- I don't know, the local sheriff would come in and say, "You're against the law, we're going to jail you." Now, is it possible? Yes. GOLDBERG: Anything is possible. HASSELBECK: We're a litigious society. I mean, I think there are lawsuits that get brought up all the time, and I don't think anyone would hesitate to bring a lawsuit -- GOLDBERG: Yeah, I do, I do. Because this was so important to folks because it's not just about being gay, and it's not just about partnership. If the state and the country were to allow gay partners the same rights as married people have, this wouldn't be an issue. But the issue -- but the issue is -- HASSELBECK: But would you want -- if that were the case, would you then be OK with it not being called marriage? GOLDBERG: I would -- I'm not gay, so I don't know, but I can only speak for what I see. As we said a couple of days ago, if I -- if Sherry and I were married, and we have built our life together, and I die, you, my cousin, could come in and say, "I'm taking everything that you guys [inaudible]." That's the law, because -- [crosstalk] HASSELBECK: But you do have rights as a -- difference state to state is the problem. GOLDBERG: Civil unions do not allow me to die and you to automatically get my stuff. WALTERS: It could also affect children. GOLDBERG: It can affect -- also, if we've adopted children, they can come, you can come, and grab that child. If we can find, if the states can say this is what civil union is, it is everything but the word, people I think would be more happy. WALTERS: Another proposition -- another proposition that I believe, and I could be wrong, I have to check the information, but one of the states prohibited gay people from adopting children. We talked about that. GOLDBERG: Which drives me crazy, yeah. WALTERS: Was it Nebraska? I don't want to say it, I don't think so. Somebody look it up and -- somebody look it up and whisper in my ear. Where is it? Not Oregon. No. GOLDBERG: No, Florida has always had that law. WALTERS: We'll find out and tell you. But the idea that there are children who could be adopted who might not be adopted, I mean, that -- I mean, the gay marriage, I can see, really -- GOLDBERG: We'll find out in the commercial break.

Egyptian bloggers who were harassed and detained in Egypt are harassed and detained in the US

A group of Egyptian bloggers who have been coming to the US throughout the past three months to cover the American elections were welcomed back to the US last night by getting arrested. Ironically, their trip was sponsored by the US Agency for International Development (USAID). Snip: [W]e've been blogging a bit about the folks over at Egypt Blogs America. It's a group of 8 Egyptian bloggers who have been brought to the US for a series of first-hand looks at the election campaigns as part of a project by the Kamal Adham Center for Journalism Training and Research at The American University in Cairo. The first trips they visited Washington, New York and other major cities. This week, after having returned briefly to Egypt, they are on their way back to visit journalism schools to which they've been assigned in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Austin, Texas, Syracuse, New York and Nebraska. (Disclosure: We'll be collaborating on a Second Life project with them in coming weeks.) The group has done an insightful and witty job of covering the 2008 US presidential election (including links to sites such as If the World Could Vote, where 90 percent of the 614,000 people from 207 countries have picked Obama over McCain). In their own country these bloggers are fighting for freedom of speech and the press. Many of them have been actively harassed by their government for their efforts. Wael Abbas, for example, had his YouTube account shut down because of his anti-torture coverage. Imagine their surprise last night when enroute back to the US, two of the bloggers were arrested and detained; one for four hours and the other for ten before being released to do what they came here to do -- observe and record. (Ironically, they arrive in the US as the Egyptian government in recent weeks has launched a campaign of arrests and harassment of bloggers.) Egypt Blogs America; Gets Arrested (Eureka Deja Vu, thanks Joshua Fouts). Above, a screengrab of Wael Abbas' blog. Previously on Boing Boing: * Egypt: blogger Kareem Amer gets 4 years for insulting Islam * Egyptian blogger Alaa to be released from prison * Egyptian anti-torture blogger Wael Abbas says YouTube shut his account. * Egypt: worldwide rallies for jailed blogger Kareem Amer on Fri. Apr. 27 * Supporters work to free Egypt blogger Kareem (NPR "Xeni Tech")...

Exclusive interview: Gomorrah writer Roberto Saviano

"Ciao, John," came the voice from who knows where. A few months ago, it was still possible to meet Roberto Saviano in person, though even then there was no doubt that his safety was in jeopardy. He was already well known in Italy, though not much beyond, as a young author who had written a scorching denunciation of the Camorra, the Neapolitan mafia, and paid for it with threats to his life. In a meeting we had almost a year ago, two police bodyguards searched the cafe and kept him in view from outside. But he could still enjoy a leisurely coffee surrounded by people who had not been frisked.Since then, Saviano has become internationally celebrated. His book, Gomorrah, has inspired an award-winning movie that is Italy's candidate for an Oscar. But the number of his bodyguards has increased to five and now he can only be contacted within Italy by telephone. It took 10 days to arrange. Even then, it didn't happen at the appointed time.The grim paradox of the author's life is that the more famous he becomes, the greater need for him to be invisible, because the more that his book is read, and the more that Matteo Garrone's powerful film is seen, the greater is the heat felt by the Camorra's bosses."Most of my problems have come in the last few weeks from a band of camorristi that is going around Campania [the region that includes Naples]. It's a group of between six and 10 people - so quite a small unit - that in six months has caused 18 deaths," Saviano said in his first interview with the British media since announcing he was to leave Italy. "Every time they have struck, I have been moved out of Campania - as far away as possible."SymbolismSaviano could not quite bring himself to say that the police believed that he was on a hit list. He said its members "had in their heads the dream of... [pause] ... striking at symbols, let's say".He is unquestionably a symbol, not just of the Italy that refuses to be cowed by mobsters, but of the universal right to freedom of speech. A group of Nobel prize-winners, including Günter Grass, Orhan Pamuk and Dario Fo, wrote an open letter to the newspaper La Repubblica after it was reported that the godfathers had set Christmas as the deadline for Saviano's elimination. Extracts from Gomorrah have been read in piazzas up and down the country. And more than 200,000 people have signed a petition in support.Saviano said he had been particularly moved by the Nobel laureates' letter. But, after two and a half years of isolation and persecution, the strain is beginning to show.Apart from trips abroad to publicise his book, he said, his life was spent between carabinieri barracks and the offices of prosecutors. He longed for a home "where I could live for a year, six months ... instead of which I am being moved around. At the start, I could put up with it, accept it was my fate. But now it's driving me crazy."It had warped his personality, he said. "Living shut up like an animal turns you into an animal. You become mistrustful. You think that everyone wants to trick you. You envy other people because they're free. You've had the strength - or the stupidity - to speak out, and they've kept quiet."He said he felt as if he were burdened with "an enormous, gigantic weight that I can no longer carry easily and that is destroying me as a writer". He had been working on a non-fiction novel, but of late most of what he had written was journalism. He managed to write while being moved between "safe houses". "But it's a difficult business, because concentrating is difficult."Several prominent Italians have appealed to him not to leave his homeland, saying it would represent a victory for the mob. But when asked when he planned to go, his answer was: "As soon as possible." Only logistical difficulties stood in the way of exile, and he hoped they could be resolved by the new year.Reviewing the film of Gomorrah, my colleague Peter Bradshaw wrote: "After the final credits, it is hard to escape the fear, even the despair, that this whole area - all of Naples, all of southern Italy - is suitable only for a rain of fire from the heavens, or maybe a 1,000-year quarantine, like an ethical or indeed literal Chernobyl." It is a sensation that anyone who knows the area will instantly recognise.But, said Saviano, "I'd like to ask people not to consider my story as that of a southern Italian and thus of a man who lives in an underdeveloped country of violent men, but to regard it as a European - very European - story. What I and the others who write on these matters are talking about is the biggest single economic force in the European Union. What affects me also affects Londoners, Berliners and Madrilenians. All the organised criminal cartels invest in London and it is no coincidence that London is among the five cities with the highest consumption of cocaine."It is about freedom of speech," he said of the issues surrounding his novel and the reaction to it. "But above all, it is about the freedom of the reader, because what has put me in danger is reading. If what I wrote had ended up in the hands of 20,000 people it would not have generated any problem. What put me in danger is that, because of me, millions of people decided to take an interest in the things that interested me."Salman Rushdie said Saviano's position was even more perilous than his own had been, and Saviano agrees. He recounted the story of a mafioso who turned state evidence and was once asked if a death sentence passed by the dons could ever be lifted. "No," he replied, "Only postponed."Despite this, and the global reach of the Camorra, which is one theme of Gomorrah, Saviano seems confident that he will find a way to live safely outside Italy without round-the-clock protection. "I'm not absolutely sure," he said. "But I think so."Italyguardian.co.uk © Guardian News & Media Limited 2008 | Use of this content is subject to our Terms & Conditions | More Feeds